Standing for Something: National Coming Out Day 2008
I have no words for how disgusted I am at the Mormon church and its despicable hate- and fearmongering on the topic of Proposition 8, which would amend the California state constitution to take marriage rights away from same-sex couples.
During a Wednesday satellite broadcast, young Mormons were fed the same tired lies and misleading spin that have proven so effective in the “Yes on 8″ campaign*. They were also urged to to “go viral” on their online social networks and blogs. “I must admit I don’t know how all this works,” wrinkled, out-of-touch and irrelevant Mormon ‘apostle’ Russell Ballard said, “but you do.”
If Ballard knew anything about anything at all (i.e., if he were relevant), he would know that faithful Mormons have already “gone viral” with their church’s message of hate and intolerance. (He would also know better than to use the phrase “go viral.” It’s SO 2003.) But one can always do more, and try harder! Accordingly, Facebook “Yes on 8″ groups have proliferated, and half of my BYU friends’ Facebook statuses are “is following the prophet & voting Yes on Prop 8!!” (I’m wondering which of us will un-friend the other first.)
My opinion on the subject is very simple: if marriage is a religious institution (which Mormons will tell you was established in the Garden of Eden, when God married Adam and Eve), then why is the government involved in it at all? If, instead, marriage is a civil institution as far as the government is concerned, why do we give a flying fuck how a group of closed-minded religious bigots say it should be handled?
Today is National Coming Out Day in the U.S. This is an excellent opportunity to come out to someone—or everyone—around you as queer or as a queer ally—and a great way to do that is by publicly opposing Prop 8. In Ballard’s words, “I hope you will go viral. I hope you will engage.”
* See MormonsforMarriage.com for an essay-length discussion and refutation of the principle arguments against same-sex marriage used by Mormon leaders and the Yes on 8 campaign.
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October 11th, 2008 at 9:54 am
Sean, you’ve put things exactly how I wanted to when I first heard from my BYU friends that they had this broadcast (though it would more appropriately be called a political rally). To come from a background of hate for what you believe in and persecution because of that hate, you’d think that the Mormon church would be more apt to accept others’ differences and let them coexist in peace. Instead they’ve drawn on the power of ~30,000 students (excepting, of course, the few that choose to think for themselves) who will blindly follow what their church tells them to do and say because of near brainwashing since birth or conversion. What is this, the 11th century, the crusades? This is not a holy war.
Why should the Mormon church—or any other church, group, or individual—care if I choose to marry a man that I fall in love and want to spend my life with? In the case of the Mormon church, they believe in the ability to choose what you do in this life and those choices will affect your standing in the life to come. If they have told me what they think about it and what their prophet/leaders have told them is the right way, what more do they need to do. I remember (as I’m sure you do) that all their responsibility to do in the case of immorality is to tell people what God thinks of their filthy sins. /sarcasm After that point, they have nothing to worry about, their responsibility in the matter is finished. If I continue to choose to live my life against their teachings, my “sins are not on their heads.”
From a secular standpoint, how have I violated or taken away someone’s rights by marrying someone of the same sex? In one of its simplest forms, this is what government’s duty to its citizens is with regards to legislation. If I have caused personal injury to someone by marrying a man, that’s one story, but preventing damage to a bigoted ego is not a reason for good government to create laws. Either way, religion needs to keep itself out of government and government needs to keep itself out of religion.
October 11th, 2008 at 11:44 am
If I wasn’t worried about getting fired for it, I would SOOOO be super anti-prop 8 blogger. As SOON as I get a job at the U, I will be activist lady, though. you can bet on it. ;-)
October 11th, 2008 at 12:02 pm
Eric, I really am not sure why they’re so dead set against gay marriage rights. It doesn’t seem to make sense, especially since their own explanatory website says that Prop 8 won’t hurt Teh Gays because California domestic partnerships already provide for the same rights and privileges as marriage, which… WHY DO YOU CARE, THEN???? Mormons already don’t accept heterosexual civil marriage as having any kind of religious validity, but you don’t see them campaigning and lying their lying asses off in order to outlaw that. WHATEVERS.
Would you be VIRULENTLY anti-prop 8, BYU prof? HAHAHAHAHhahahahaahahahaha!!!! I crack me up. In any case, I’ve put your name down in the super-secret GEY AGENDUH NOTEBOOK as a supporter.
October 11th, 2008 at 12:37 pm
Sean,
I have posted a a couple of times and made comments on other blogs about my own anger at the Mormon Church’s insistance on exercising political muscle in the affairs of government. Organized Religion has not business in the voting arena. The Mormon theology is showing its true colors not just for the spiritual heart of man but its political control of man
October 11th, 2008 at 12:53 pm
I agree, tasithoughts. Unfortunately, the separation of church and state isn’t as explicit a legal doctrine as I wish it were.
October 11th, 2008 at 5:06 pm
As I sit here naked. I’m reading blogs in the buff. I need friends. Anyways
Thursday night I got into a heated exchange about this subject as I was on the BYU campus. Which is akin to walking into High School in only my underwear. ***ASIDE: I really did do this, as to try to grab a conceptual emotion to that feeling. Seeing I never once had the dream. I was accosted by a police officer at the door and asked if I was on “drugs”. Seeing I made me ‘horrifying’ march though only the parking lot to and fro the door and my car. I see nothing terrifying about that concept.: END ASIDE*** Anyways, I said one thing and kept repeating it in a most horrifying debasement of the art of disagreement. But I could not get the second party involved to give me an answer related to my question (rhetorical or not.) ***ASIDE #2 (We are blowing them out here tonight!) : I’m not going to carriage return my conversation, because it will make a much too long (physically) middle part of this diatribe/drivel so it will be assumed that it is back and forth with the statements starting with MINE! :END ASIDE #2*** Which was “Why do you care what people do with their lives that has no bearing on you what so ever?” The answer is always a “Defense of the institution of marriage, which is between a man and a woman.” “Who says?” “The Prophet” “So? That makes it right across the board?” “Yes” “So you are saying there is no other way to be a good person, which is discrimination in such a mindless fashion, I would hope that a near Doctorate degree would have diminished that type of logic” “It is not discrimination. I’m done with this conversation” “No, tell me why you care what two other people do in regards to the same right, be it religious or not” “You are too stubborn to see the answer” “I’m stubborn, that is DAMN right. But you are failing this disagreement abysmally. You are simply giving me regurgitated answers that you feel as your OWN moral code to be right.” “No I’m defending my believe that marriage is between a man and woman” “Define man and woman” “What?” “What makes a man, a man?” “Physically different definition of sex within species” “Explain soul or spirit” “I’m done with this argument you are now simply angering me.” “…and?” “and what, I wanted to have a nice time with you, not argue about this, you will not change my mind” “Good, I wasn’t trying, I was looking for an answer to my question.” “You are sooooo stubborn, you knew this would happen, why would even bring this up?” “I’m an asshole?”
I see her point. I do. I can’t call her a horrible person. She is amazingly intelligent and working on solving human health conundrums that plague our society. The whole perplexity I’ve found (***ASIDE #π: and the point of my post Sean, in case I just run away on some rant that I cooked while sitting at my computer..blah blah… the voices they don’t stop! My comments must seem deranged, I’m convinced of it. :END ASIDE #π***)
The whole complexity that I have found with having friendships in which basic and standard rights and what have you are so blurred and varied, where does one relax and let someone just be who they are. Fighter for freedom of everything and everyone is such a daunting task that it would consume me and my personality till I was as bland as the exchange I recounted here. Still for everyone of me there are if I chose that path there is someone equally insane (though probably locked up) fighting against me. I find it depressing at the least to see everyone just yelling (or more) at each other (***ASIDE #ABSURD: sounds engrossingly hippy for a burly man with a goatee nearly 7 inches long, a penchant for whiskey, loose women and guns, oh and who will vote adamantly for Nader until Nader dies, then will vote for Zombie Nader until is locked up and his right to vote taken away from him. :END ASIDE #ABSURD)
This whole thing is NOT to say this: I’m not proud of you voicing your concerns and acting on them and being forceful and loud. No, not in the least bit. I’m amazed at your courage and ability and understanding. I enjoy the fact that you are vocal and very much so. I enjoy you declare yourself to a world that wants to glaze you over. I’m proud for you and of you.
The problem I’m trying to convey in my comment is that I can’t answer my own question I asked to my friend: “Why do I care who does what about whatever?”
Grenouille’s cave is looking more and more enticing as I get older. That is the part that scares me the most about me.
Rock on my friend,
“..damn the man, save the Empire!”
October 12th, 2008 at 3:03 pm
Don’t go hide in a cave! Caves are boring. Surfing the web naked is much more enjoyable.
I’m not at all surprised when BYU students dogmatically support the Mormon party line. Besides the fact that they would be putting their enrollment in danger if they didn’t, it would be hard to live under such pressure in an enclosed microcosm and not absorb the ideas—rational or irrational—that permeate one’s environment. But the people I think really deserve our respect are the BYU students who speak out against Mormon injustice. They’re putting themselves on the line in a way I never did.
October 13th, 2008 at 8:54 am
Dear Sean, this is exactly why I had my name removed from the Mormon Church. I do know that my friends who are still active, will support me in my quest to marry the love of my life. I wish I could say the same for my own relatives, but you know there isn’t much hope on that front. I have several friends who completely disagree with the Mormon leadership getting involved in politics, and I have to say I salute them. It must be hard to believe in a church that you only partially agree with. Prop 8, from what I hear is failing, and that is the good news.
On our way to work, we saw a yard sign that says “yes on prop 8″. I suggested we deface it or remove it, but we just didn’t want to risk going to jail for defacing private property. On the way to work this morning, we saw, to our delight, someone had torn it to shreds. It put a great big smile on our lesbian faces.
I love you Sean. I love that you know who you are and what you stand for. And, as always I am extremely proud to be your Aunt.
October 13th, 2008 at 3:21 pm
What has really been getting me lately is seeing so many of my non-American Mormon friends coming out in support of Proposition 8 on Facebook. The Mormon church didn’t even issue a press release against same-sex marriage or civil unions when those issues came up in Scandinavia, Spain or wherever else, but it has successfully hypnotized its non-American members into thinking that a) they should care about same-sex marriage in California and b) the Mormon church cares about the situation of its overseas faithful. FAIL.
October 13th, 2008 at 6:18 pm
I’ve only been on Facebook for a few days (and already connected to half of my hometown, most of whom are LDS, which is going to make life very interesting in a few months when I change my now blank religious status to ‘agnostic’) but you’ve just made me realise that I should be adding something on Prop 8. Especially with all those connections, including one in Utah and one in CA. I did write a letter for SFS and donate to them for the printing costs. Trying to do what I can from a distance.
October 13th, 2008 at 7:55 pm
…and despite my last comment, I really am pleased that there are people in Australia who care enough about equality to do something about a situation half a world away. (Although, if you have to live in California to care about California, why do I care?) Here’s hoping our efforts and agitating are enough.
October 13th, 2008 at 11:45 pm
Here’s another aspect of the money the church has raised in CA:
The Sacramento Bee has an article today about the sacrifices that members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints have made so that they can take away the right to marry from same-sex couples.
Rick and Pam Patterson gave $50,000.
He drives a 10-year-old Honda Civic to his job at Intel. She is a stay-at home mom who makes most of the family meals and bakes her own bread. The couple, who have five sons between the ages of 3 and 12, live in a comfortable but modest three-bedroom home in Folsom.
David and Susan Nielson gave $35,000.
The couple will forgo a vacation for the next two years and make other sacrifices to pay for their donation, he said.
Yes, they are faithful members of their church. And while the couples deny that they were pressured to contribute, both couples did so after the June 29 letter came out from the First Presidency and the church leadership requesting that Mormons “do what you can”.
However, this sacrifice seems not to have extended to the leaders actually contributing from their own personal funds. A search of the contribution database listing all contributors of $100 or more yields:
* President and Prophet Thomas Monson – $0.00
* 1st Counselor Henry Eyring – $0.00
* 2nd Counselor Dieter Uchtdorf – $0.00
* Apostle Boyd Packer – $0.00
* Apostle L. Tom Perry – $0.00
* Apostle Russell Nelson – $0.00
* Apostle Dallin Oaks – $0.00
* Apostle M. Russell Ballard – $0.00
* Apostle Joseph Wirthlin – $0.00
* Apostle Richard Scott – $0.00
* Apostle Robert D. Hales – $0.00
* Apostle Jeffery Holland – $0.00
* Apostle David Bednar – $0.00
* Apostle Quentin Cook – $0.00
* Apostle C. Todd Christofferson – $0.00
Perhaps “our best efforts” means something different to the leaders than it does to the followers.
October 14th, 2008 at 1:35 am
Somehow this does not surprise me at all. People can do what they want with their money, but this still makes me ill. First, that anyone could care so much about taking rights away from their fellow beings, and second, that the Mormon church would put so much shameless pressure on its members, without regard to their individual consciences. And of course, third, that those at the top of the ladder haven’t dipped into their own purses and contributed more than hateful, lying words.
Thanks for the comment, memikeyounot.
October 15th, 2008 at 6:06 am
i agree with all that’s been said here. keep religion and state separate. so let me ask all of you gay people a question just to check for hypocrisy. should a brother and sister be allowed to marry? should a father be allowed to marry his daughter? [let's say there's no way for them to have children to avoid that part of the discussion.] would you grant them the right to marriage as well? 8)
October 15th, 2008 at 11:44 am
Good question, Willy. There are (in my opinion) valid reasons for outlawing incest that have nothing in common with the arguments for or against same-sex marriage or the fear of inbreeding. One of my main reservations concerns the potential imbalance of power between a father and daughter or between a brother and sister, even if all parties are adults. It is very easy for me to imagine situations where coercion—overt or covert—would come into play.
I would therefore have less of a difficulty agreeing to the marriage of two siblings of the same sex who are near in age, because it seems to me that there would be a lower possibility that the younger or female member was being forced into the union. I have next to no problem with a marriage between siblings of any sex who were not raised together.
ON THE OTHER HAND, there is no law against stepsiblings marrying, or a stepparent marrying a stepchild, so maybe my argument is completely invalid.
[Edited to remove a line about polygamy that I thought better of.]
October 20th, 2008 at 10:06 pm
[...] Sean: Standing for Something: National Coming Out Day 2008 [...]
October 21st, 2008 at 4:38 pm
I think you hit the nail on the head, Sean:
I recently had a thoroughly enlightening conversation with a bunch of godless liberals and a good Catholic friend. We were all in agreement that civil marriage should be kept separate and distinct from religious marriage. The Catholic said that he didn’t care what people were allowed to do—as far as he was concerned the only valid Catholic marriage was between two opposite sex Catholics in good standing. And he’s right. I don’t care how religions want to restrict marriage. When it comes to the state, however, religions should not have any voice in the matter of how the state will treat marriages.
willy & Sean brought up a good point about incest laws. There is certainly more of an “ick” factor for me with regard to people who grew up in the same home (regardless of blood). I’ve not yet heard any great clamor among siblings of any kind for marriage rights. However, in CA, there is no blood test for marriage. All it asks is that the two parties be unaware of a familial connection. Perhaps that is enough.
That said, fathers & daughters—there’s a definite power issue going on there. Just like with adults and children (which is why I’m pro-gay sex but anti-pedophilia). Ultimately it comes down to consenting adults.